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V3.6 Smart Recovery Not Working Properly

zeroskatr512zeroskatr512 Reading, PAMember
edited May 2015 in ecobee

Has anyone experienced any issues with smart recovery not starting as expected after the new software update? With the 3.6 update, Smart recovery seems to be hit or miss. Some times is starts early and gets the house to temp by the set point time, others it only starts at the set point time.

Answers

  • dx9dx9 CanadaMember

    Had that happen this morning for the first time with 3.6. Have had 3.6 for about 3 weeks now and today smart recovery never kicked in like it always does at 6am. It waited till 6:30 to turn on the heat at the set point.

    zeroskatr512
  • zeroskatr512zeroskatr512 Reading, PAMember

    It seems that the issue is happening in the morning and not the evening. Follow me is disabled as well as Smart home/away.

  • dborndborn Montreal, CanadaMember

    I have a Smart thermostat (EB-STAT-02) and it will never get a "3.6" upgrade...
    I've had this thermostat since last October so this was the first winter.

    I've also noticed a similar behavior on mine in a few occasions (perhaps 5 or 6 times over the course of the winter season). I also noticed it seemed to happen almost exclusively in the morning and perhaps never in the evening.

    I've tried to analyze the events and notice any trends but nothing stands out.

    So my point is, the hardware is different, the software version is different but it's still happening and my understanding is that it didn't happen (as much?) on a previous version of the ecobee3's firmware which was still more recent than the most up-to-date version of EB-STAT-02's so is this some kind of software regression?

    I plan to write my own version of Smart Recovery using the API (on a Linux server) for next winter so I'll be able to control the behavior and see if can do better than ecobee in that department... :) (it'll be a fun project if nothing else).

  • zeroskatr512zeroskatr512 Reading, PAMember

    Still seeing the same behavior.
    It was a bit warmer today, and smart recovery didn't start early at all. The temperature was two degrees above when the setpoint changed. I am expecting to see some comfort issues as the temperatures get warmer.
    @msaleem has anyone else been seeing this?

  • jmattionijmattioni Philadelphia, PAMember

    I wonder if the HVAC Auto setting is confusing the recovery logic? It seems like it would have to establish the current mode (heat or cool) at any point in time before it could come up with the correct recovery strategy. What's your setting for Heat/Cool Min Delta?

  • marcmarc Member

    Mine's been acting up too since switching it to Auto (Heat/Cool). It's not heating in the AM like it should.

  • dx9dx9 CanadaMember

    Def not working at all here. Hopefully a new sw update is coming to fix it soon.

  • msaleemmsaleem TorontoEcobee Employee
    Answer ✓

    @zeroskatr512 @dx9 @marc and anyone else having issues with Smart Recovery, can you please send me an email: [email protected]

    To ensure I can get back to you quickly, please use the following:

    Subject: Smart Recovery issues with 3.6

    Body:

    Please include your ecobee user ID and serial number of thermostat(s) that you're having problems with.

    Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I will try my best to get back to everyone in a day or two.

  • zeroskatr512zeroskatr512 Reading, PAMember
    edited May 2015

    @msaleem

    Smart Recovery seems to be intermittent. Yesterday afternoon it kicked in like expected.
    Looks like a bug needs to be squished somewhere. I see smoothing was added to the IQ graph.

  • zeroskatr512zeroskatr512 Reading, PAMember
    edited May 2015

    I have been in touch with ecobee and some of the reason I have been experiencing these issues is due to the way my set points fall and a new system protection algorithm for v3.6 However, it doesn't quite cover the reason why I was having issues in the afternoon. I will try to keep everyone posted if I find out any more information.

    Thanks for sharing your information with us. We have looked at your scenario and understand why Smart Recovery is not kicking on in the mornings. The reason is because with 3.6, our algorithms have built in protection for auto mode to prevent quick switch between heating and cooling if the desired heat/cool temperatures are too close. Let me explain what is happening in your situation

    Your Sleep temperature settings are – Cool – 72, Heat – 60

    Your Home (5am) temperature settings are – Cool – 73, Heat – 71

    Smart Recovery will try and heat your home to 71 before 5am but when the ecobee is trying to recover to 71, there is a chance that after the equipment turns off, the heat dissipation causes the temperature to rise by a few degrees and it goes above 72 (Cool desired temperature during Sleep) – this would cause the Cooling equipment to turn on just after heating completed. To prevent this situation (which we believe may happen for customers and can be both energy inefficient and cause equipment wear& tear), we have built in protection that is preventing Smart Recovery from kicking on.

    In your Away – Home transition during the afternoon, the Away temperatures are Cooling- 80 and Heating – 60, while Home temperatures are Cooling – 73, Heating – 71, so Smart Recovery protection does not kick in because heating the home to 71 will not cause an overshoot to 80.

    We will look into how we can address this issue while still enabling protection.

    In general we have seen Sleep desired temperatures for cooling to be higher than those for Home, (so for Cooling may be a 74/75 instead of 72) coming down to 73 during Home. It would be really helpful for us if you can describe the rationale for selecting your chosen desired cool temperatures. The only work around right now is for the desired temperature for Cool to be higher than the current setting during Sleep comfort setting.

    bemyax
  • gizbuggizbug ChicagoMember

    Thanks. Keep us updated, and hopefully some patch comes soon

  • I had to remove my ecobee3 after 1 day. The Smart Recovery didn't work, and Customer Support could not fix it (they tried downgrading back to 3.5, and then re-pushing 3.6). The thermostat was in Auto mode, my Away heat/cool set points were 60/83, and my Home setpoints were 68/74. The schedule was set to go back to Home at 3:30 PM. By 2:30, the house was already at 77 degrees, and by 3:30, it was at 78 degrees. The A/C didn't come on until EXACTLY 3:30 PM (no Smart Recovery). It then took hours to cool down to the proper 74 (I actually shut it down at 75 for 5 minutes to put the old thermostat back in, then let it go back on). I understand that the Smart Recovery needs to learn how long it takes to cool the house, but there is no way it can expect an instantaneous 4-degree drop. It should have kicked on early.
    The Customer Service rep told that due to the holiday yesterday, the developers weren't in (for him to consult), so he would have to wait until today, and get back to me. I told him I'd have no choice but to put back my old thermostat (a 10-year-old Honeywell TH8000 series that worked perfectly) while I waited for an answer. If this can't be fixed in the next day or two, the ecobee3 is going back to Amazon for a refund.

  • dborndborn Montreal, CanadaMember

    If you expect that level of performance from your thermostat and from the ecobee support team, you might as well return it now. :)

    What you could do in the meantime though, is to set your HOME time to start earlier, say 3:00pm or even 2:30pm to give the thermostat time to adapt to your house and for you to understand what it does, when and why. Then, you can start bringing that time up as it learns.

    When I got my Smart, it took a few weeks for everything to stabilize and for me to stop thinking something was wrong every time the behavior changed.

  • @noamparn

    Along with what @dborn said, you can disable Smart Recovery and put your set times early. Then turn on Smart Recovery later. I assume/hope the ecobee3 can learn about your house while Smart Recovery is turned off, but I don't really know. It would be nice to have some feedback from the ecobee to know what it has learned so far so we know what to expect, but it would probably add some confusion and problems (with people nit-picking all the info given), too.

    Also, I agree that you probably need to give the thermostat time to learn how your house handles heat before it is confident in any Smart Recovery approach (sorry, I heavily anthropomorphized the ecobee there). I believe Nest has an initial two-week learning period, though a lot of that is probably learning your schedule.

  • @brianusername, @dborn - thank you for your feedback.
    As I stated in my post, I know that it will take some time to learn how quickly my house heat up and cools off. I never expected the Smart Recovery to be perfect the very first day. However, I expected it would start learning the first day, and at least come on a little bit early. I don't think it is unreasonable to make the assumption that temperature changes are not instantaneous, and therefore a 4-degree drop will take some time. Knowing that, pick an arbitrary time (30 minutes? 60 minutes) to come on early, and see how it goes from there. Given the return policies of many retailers are 15 days or less, the customer won't be able to return it if it doesn't work after giving it two weeks to learn.

  • jmattionijmattioni Philadelphia, PAMember

    Try taking the Ecobee out of Auto mode for now. It's convenient to use Auto this time of year, but I think it's been confirmed that it's behind the problem.

  • I tried putting it into "Cool" mode yesterday, while on the phone with tech support (we changed the schedule to try and duplicate the problem). Same thing happened. It didn't kick on until the "home" time started - despite it being 3-4 degrees too warm in the house.

  • Well, I did finally get an answer from ecobee on my specific problem. They said my specific problem is different from the one described by the "protection algorithm" answer above. In my case, the temperatures are far enough apart. However, they said it can take up to 72 hours for the thermostat to learn enough about the heating/cooling properties of the home to start initiating the Smart Recovery. So, my options (as suggested above) are to either live with coming home to a hot house for a few days, or waste more energy by kicking the system on early for a few days.

  • dborndborn Montreal, CanadaMember

    In the grand scheme of things, 72 hours (3 days) is a fairly short amount of time. To be perfectly honest, I too first thought that setting the initial smart heat/cool recovery time to 0 was not very useful. I guess the premise is to not waste energy by starting the smart recovery too early.

    If you consider that kicking the system on early is wasting energy then you shouldn't use smart recovery as this is what it does after all! ;) (I know, early but not too early)

    Just an advance warning, you will see the thermostat sometimes do things and you'll wonder "why the heck did it do that!?". With time, you'll come to understand why and other times you won't be able to figure it out. Some times ecobee support will be able to help, other times they won't. Even with all its fine-tuning ability, it won't be perfect for anyone/everyone (some will want more, others less).

    All in all, it's a pretty smart piece of kit for a few 100$ thermostat. One thing I'd like to see on mine is a full manual mode with more fine-grained control-ablity but I know it's not going to happen.

    Anyway, good luck with your ecobee3! I hope it's all you expect it to be in the long run,
    Daniel

  • zeroskatr512zeroskatr512 Reading, PAMember

    I didn't get much further regarding the few days where smart recovery didn't start properly in the afternoon. Seems like an intermittent issue. Temperatures have been mild the past week so the need for HVAC has been minimal. If anyone else is having recovery issues that are not related to conflicting set-points as mentioned in my previous post please make sure you contact msaleem as he requested in his post above. It is possible that the protection algorithm is not functioning as they had anticipated.

    Here is the last correspondence I had with ecobee.

    I did have a look but was unable to explain the reason for smart recovery not starting on May 10 at 4:30pm. I have sent the information to our developers to investigate further and they have not come back to me with an answer yet. It does seem strange because it happens intermittently. I will let you know when I have more information

    For the smart recovery to work in the mornings, if you can set your cool set point for the period before your home to 75F with the Home heat set point to 71, smart recovery will work. Also we are making tweaks to the algorithm so that your earlier scenario would still work with smart recovery.

  • fpuigfpuig East CoastMember

    My thermostat is running 3.6.0.877 and for some reason the smart recovery is not working anymore, someone had success fixing this issue?

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